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Post by sixty9santa on Oct 15, 2007 16:22:17 GMT -5
Hi all!
So I've got plans for my 302 Granada, I want more power!
I'm thinking on going with AFR 185cc heads, a Comp Cams Magnum 280h or 286h hydraulic flat tappet cam kit, new rings, Weiand Xcelerator intake, 2" Trans Dapt swirl torque phenolic spacer, a Summit Racing Hilborn scoop, a 750cc Speed Demon carb, 3.80:1 rear gears in my 8" differential, a B&M line lock, some type of headers (?) with heat wrap, Fel Pro gaskets all around and a B&M tans kit.
What else should I do or need for this build to be successful?
Much thanks,
Chris
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Post by Jeff Roblin on Oct 16, 2007 8:04:31 GMT -5
I would add new leaf springs to your list as well as a 3row aluminium rad with electric fans. Also, if you adding horsepower, you may want to upgrade and inspect your front steering and suspension.
Btw - I'm in Montreal this week.
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Post by sixty9santa on Oct 16, 2007 17:43:43 GMT -5
Hey Jeff Where abouts in Montreal?
For the front I'm going to go with Eaton Detroit's "Rod Ride" coil springs that also lower the front end by 2" and as for the rear leafs, I'll be adding a leaf or two (at most) since the car doesn't seem to have a sagging rear end (please throw some jokes at this!)
I'll also be using Energy Suspension bushings everywhere I can and my steering is good to go.
Also considering to bolt some Lakewood traction bars.
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Post by Jeff Roblin on Oct 16, 2007 20:53:44 GMT -5
Hey Jeff Where abouts in Montreal? For the front I'm going to go with Eaton Detroit's "Rod Ride" coil springs that also lower the front end by 2" and as for the rear leafs, I'll be adding a leaf or two (at most) since the car doesn't seem to have a sagging rear end (please throw some jokes at this!) I'll also be using Energy Suspension bushings everywhere I can and my steering is good to go. Also considering to bolt some Lakewood traction bars. I work for Wyeth. I'm staying out near the Airport this week - all the hotels downtown were booked. As for the leaf springs, if your car is like most, a number of your springs may be broken. I had several leafs in either side broken. [glow=red,2,300] Your rear isn't sagging, you just need to pull your pants up![/glow] |
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Post by monty on Apr 28, 2008 21:33:14 GMT -5
save the money on the line lock and get a 3000 rpm torque converter or better yet get both. youe going to need more stall with the single plane intake and big cam. also the 73 to 76 302's have a 8.229 deck height compaired to other year 302's that have a standard 8.200 deck this equals lower compression. you can order your afr heads milled to about 53cc this will help the compression. your stock heads have 62 cc chambers.
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Post by hipogranada on May 1, 2008 12:38:25 GMT -5
Assuming that you're building this for all-around street use and not strictly as a drag car, building for peak power at high RPM may not be what you want. Torque and midrange power are your friends on the street. Re: the 750 cfm carburetor. Likely too much for 302 ci, you'd lose a lot of torque with too much carburetion, and unless you're turning very high RPM you just don't need that much flow. Optimum is probably in the 600 to 650 cfm range for a warmed-up 302. Vacuum secondaries, and you don't need a double-pumper either. If you do the math for the carburetion you'll be surprised ... 302 cubic inches at 5000 RPM is divided by two because it is a four stroke engine multiplied by the volumetric efficiency expected at this RPM based on head, valve, camshaft design, roughly 85-95 percent on a good day, then divide by the 1728 cubic inches in a cubic foot. 302 x 5000 x 1/2 x .85-.95 x 1/1728 = CFM. This yields 437-488 CFM. Here's a calculator online: www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.htmlSounds small, doesn't it? With steeper gearing, midrange-aggressive cam profile, the right intake, you're looking in the 600cfm range unless you plan to make all your power above 6000 rpm, in which case the bottom end is likely to suffer an untimely death. And if you gear it much above 3.50 without overdrive, you're buzzing that little motor pretty high on the highway on a long drive. There goes longevity again, but it depends on what you want. For the street, you probably would be disappointed with the single-plane intake. They're great at high RPM on the dragstrip, but on the street it's torque that you feel. Go with a good dual-plane intake that makes power and torque in the midrange, you'll be happy with it. A while back, Mustang & Fords or Mustang Monthly did a buildup on a 302. Part of the build story included testing a variety of carburetors on the dyno. They tested Holleys, Demons, Edelbrocks and a vintage Autolite 4100 in varying CFM ratings. This may surprise you, but the best dyno numbers came using an old Autolite 4100 rated at 600. That's the old shoebox carb that was used in the '60s. The big blocks got a 600cfm version, those have 1.12" primary venturi. The 480cfm version Ford used on 289s had 1.08' venturi. The thing about the 4100 is that it is about bulletproof, easy to work on and set up, and it's as reliable as a carburetor can get. Guys threw 'em away in the '60s but now they've come back around. Check out Pony Carburetor's website for more info about 'em. There is a guy who visits the Yahoo forum - his name is Bill, goes by Fuely2 - who was a carburetion engineer for Ford back in the day. He's an old Woodward Avenue veteran and he knows this stuff inside out. If he pops up here, or at the other site, he would be a great source for info on building a 302 that'll make some power. |
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Post by hipogranada on May 1, 2008 13:35:06 GMT -5
The factory HD suspension in the Granada used a 5-leaf spring. Standard suspension was four leaves. You may want to count yours and see what you have now. Hey Jeff Where abouts in Montreal? For the front I'm going to go with Eaton Detroit's "Rod Ride" coil springs that also lower the front end by 2" and as for the rear leafs, I'll be adding a leaf or two (at most) since the car doesn't seem to have a sagging rear end (please throw some jokes at this!) I'll also be using Energy Suspension bushings everywhere I can and my steering is good to go. Also considering to bolt some Lakewood traction bars. |
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Post by jhkaster on May 1, 2008 18:03:32 GMT -5
Just curious.. have any of you swapped the 4 leaf for the 5 leaf springs? Would like to know what you think it did to the ride quality and the handling...
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Post by hipogranada on May 1, 2008 18:32:31 GMT -5
I've owned one of each at the same time, a Monarch Ghia with standard suspension and my Sports Coupe with HD. I felt expansion joints in the road with the HD setup compared to the standard. It is noticeably stiffer. To my taste, also less "mushy" feeling, I think the HD package handles a lot better. Just curious.. have any of you swapped the 4 leaf for the 5 leaf springs? Would like to know what you think it did to the ride quality and the handling... |
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Post by pgagt97 on May 5, 2008 4:38:09 GMT -5
I swapped out my sagging 4 leafs for some new 5's from JC Whitney. It made a world of difference. The car goes over bumps with one nice little thump instead of a couple creaky bounces. It used to bottom out with people in the backseat and now the rear end doesn't even lower with 2 people in the back. It's definitely firmer but it doesn't bother me at all. It still rides a lot smoother than my PGT.
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Post by sixty9santa on May 13, 2008 19:51:53 GMT -5
Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it!
Just found out that I do need a kick down linkage for my C4 trans.
So now my quest continues on finding a carb with mechanical secondaries and an electric choke....Anyone know of one?
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Post by j3schwa on Jun 15, 2008 21:59:13 GMT -5
Hey guys!
I just completed replacing my rearend and all the bushings along with it. I took Jeff's advice and inspected the rear leafsprings for breaks...No problems so I just repainted them and re installed them.
I could not believe how much better the car rode and generally handled. I also installed a rear sway bar from PST with poly bushings. That seemed to really have firmed up the rear while retaining that "big car" ride or perhaps I should say heavy car ride. BTW my Granada has the standard 4 leaf suspension. Another thing I did to "adjust the rear ride height was to remove the 1/2 factory spacer that was between the spring and spring perch. I know it is not much but it looks more level than it did prior.
Anyone ever replaced the coil springs with modern progressive rate springs? I still want to lower the front with shorter ones.
James
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Post by hipogranada on Jun 16, 2008 17:58:37 GMT -5
Think twice on the mechanical secondaries unless the car's pretty much for dragstrip only. You really don't need that for street use and you'll probably add a lot of premature engine wear from all the extra, raw gas dumping into the cylinders. Vacuum secondaries are the way to go for the street. Thanks for all the input guys, I really appreciate it! Just found out that I do need a kick down linkage for my C4 trans. So now my quest continues on finding a carb with mechanical secondaries and an electric choke....Anyone know of one? |
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Post by sixty9santa on Jun 24, 2008 23:14:50 GMT -5
Thanks you for that!
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Post by sixty9santa on Jun 27, 2008 23:36:49 GMT -5
So far I've revised my ideas once more....I'm thinking about getting a Holley 4160 600cfm carburetor (part# 80457S) and I'm considering a new ignition box, such as the Street Fire with a built in rev limiter, manufactured by MSD for 150$, to replace my old ignition module. Naturally I'll be getting a new voltage regulator as well.
As for the intake manifold, it's a toss between the Weiand Xcelerator and the Edelbrock Performer RPM Air Gap, but I really do like the Edelbrock with the exception of their price...
Cam and lifters will be will be a Lunati Voodoo 61002LK (1400-5700rpm) or 61003LK (1800-6200rpm). They seem to have a broader rpm range than CompCams. I'm also saving up for a 2500rpm stall converter and some new 60cc Edelbrock cylinder heads....one day.
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